Log in

[OOC/meta] Cley Refresh Times? - World Tree Community [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
World Tree

[ website | The official World Tree website ]
[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

[OOC/meta] Cley Refresh Times? [Jan. 7th, 2011|03:03 pm]
World Tree


So I was looking over the common associations of when someone's cley is refreshed. Dawn, of course, is unremarkable; nothing to really consider there, it being the default.

It could be argued that a strong, good personality is latent in a child even before they really show it(noon), same with a cruel, evil one(midnight), and even a penchant for being awake at night(sunout). But what about sorrow(also sunout)?

Melancholy, certainly, could be an inherent tendency. But that's not quite the same.

Is cley refresh time somewhat mutable? Not on a conscious level, but according to the personality of the subject, and perhaps their relationship with others and with the gods?

Might a personal tragedy actually prompt someone who otherwise had cley refreshed at some other time to start getting their new cley at sunout? Might a person who gradually turns exceptionally good(or evil) similarly take up a new cley refresh time?

Obviously this wouldn't be a frequent thing(not least since not every good, evil, nocturnal, or sorrowful person gets cley at noon/midnight/sunout/sunout). No passing bout of emotion, no isolated deed, would have anything to do with it - but if someone's personality takes on a greatly distinct flavour, might that be a possible trigger for this sort of cosmic consequence?

My personal notion is "perhaps, in rare cases". The entry for "sorrow" is my precedent there. I'm not sure whether the shift would result in a short "day"(as defined by the interval between cley refresh), a long one, or a chance of either. For balance terms, my money would be on "long" - that is, if someone passes that threshold after getting their cley on the 19th of Lage, and starts getting cley at sunout, the next time they get cley will not be sunout on the 19th of Lage, but on the 20th. Of course, if they pass that threshold after sunout to begin with, it's a moot point.

[User Picture]From: terrycloth
2011-01-07 07:49 pm (UTC)
My take was that it was completely random and the associations were on par with modern earth astrology.

But who knows?
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: shurhaian
2011-01-08 08:53 am (UTC)
It's not completely random, though, it seems; I remember a mention that a disproportionate number of knights recover their cley at noon, and on p174 the sourcebook mentions tendencies for those who recover it at sunout or midnight. To some extent, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy... but at some point, it starts to make more sense that one's personality affects one's cley refresh rather than the other way around.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: mharreff
2011-01-08 08:59 am (UTC)
And that should've been me, of course. D'oh.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: bensanaz
2011-01-07 07:57 pm (UTC)
I always had the impression that these were more like zodiac sign personality-typing: vague generalities without a strong grounding that are taken as predictions on the basis of what amounts to birth circumstances. Thus, it's less "sorrowful people get their cley at sunout" than "if you get your cley at sunout, it's assumed you're marked for a sorrowful fate". From that perspective, I would think that a change in your cley refresh time would sort of work the other way around, so that if your cley refresh changed to nightfall it would mean that a god had marked you for sorrow in an extremely potent and personal fashion.

(It also occurs to me night-owls getting their cley at sunout could indeed be quite firmly grounded with no destiny element involved. If you got a refreshing influx of new energy at nightfall every day, wouldn't you tend to stay up later and sleep in longer than most?)
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: mharreff
2011-01-08 08:59 am (UTC)
You have an especially good point about people being active at night if they get their cley at sunout, but apart from that, destiny doesn't seem to be a particularly strong theme on the World Tree. "The gods do not prophesy the future. It seems likely that they do not know the future (except perhaps for Kaimiri, who is silent)." p 74. In general, making one's own future seems to be a recurring element. If you really want to avoid the natural order of life and death, and live forever, the gods aren't going to stop you, nor will anyone else think you're doing anything evil.

Now, some people do believe in prophecy, I'll admit that. But that seems to be substantially heterodox.

Still, I can see enough merit in what you're saying that I don't think you're being ridiculous or even silly; I simply am not convinced to change my own position, and the above is why. :)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: bensanaz
2011-01-12 06:59 am (UTC)
Well, there's a difference between prophecy and destiny. You can be destined for greatness without it being a guaranteed thing; perhaps the small spirits whose activities and choices all together constitute luck favor you, or perhaps a blessing from a god feeling benevolent pushes things in your direction as they happen. A sorrowful fate can come the same way; perhaps you are watched and plagued by a vindictive spirit, or perhaps some deformity in your magerium literally attracts tragedy and misfortune like metal to a magnet.

You don't have to prophecy to have your future changed, is my point. :)
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)